December 18, 2002

Roads and trains – Dimbleby last Sunday

Brian Micklethwait | Media

Hello. This lump of waffle is by Brian Micklethwait. I know my name's at the end, but you need to know now that Patrick is still the pithy, fact wielding blogger you know and love.

Anyway, last Sunday I went to the ITV Centre just past the National Theatre to be a member of the studio audience for a programme being compered by Jonathan Dimbleby. At the front were Gwyneth Dunwoody (Parliamentary Transport Grumbler) and Steve Norris (not standing for Mayor of London but might have), political light-to-middle middleweights.

Why did I go? Frankly, being a contributor to this blog was what made the difference. I knew that I would get a posting for this out of the trip, maybe an amusing one, and I knew that I would learn about transport. Plus, frankly, I would never have been able to endure the entire programme in my own kitchen, where there are so many other so much more entertaining things to attend to. But when you're stuck in a live audience for one of these things, all you can do is pay attention or else let your mind wander. I mostly paid attention.

Part one, during which they discussed roads, was very encouraging. The government's new ten year road plan (a few more roads and a prayer for a bit less congestion) was held up to general derision. This plan reminds me of a good line I heard just after Black Wednesday when the pound got ejected from the EMU in the days when John Major ruled. Someone asked a city economist what the prospects for the British economy were. Well, said the economist, now that the government doesn't have a policy, the prospects are really quite good. That's the approximate state of British transport now.

The idea of road pricing was much discussed, approved of by Norris, and not attacked by anyone, not even by any of the Greens present. Stupid Greens quite like the sound of road pricing, because it sounds so anti-car. But because road pricing will actually usher in an age of sanely priced car driving and road use, it will actually be a huge step in the right direction for these activities, and make them then far harder to oppose. So Clever Greens don't know what to say. That's always fun to watch.

In part two they switched to trains. Dunwoody and Norris were joined at the front by someone called Lyons, who sounded from his title ("Railway Forum"?) like a retreaded "privatised" version of the General Secretary of the National Union of Railwaymen. The dialogue between Dimbleby and Lyons went approximately thus:

Dimbleby: The trains are now total crap. Are they going to get any better?

Lyons: Splingledookydook mumbojummery, but nevertheless dijerigabblegabble on a rational basis.

Dimbleby: You haven't answered the question. Same question again. ???

Lyons: Complexification counterproductionitis situation is doollallylallyo geblooksbumblebuggery. I think that's extremely important, as is the fact that I'm wearing a very smart suit.

Dimbleby: Yes but will the trains get any better? What's going to happen to that 90 billion pounds the government has already announced, for new ones? Is any of that left over from mending the old ones?

Lyons: Good questions. And you've got to remember also that vlimbergooglecrocket splatburger with salad on the side.

Dimbleby: But Mr Lyons, with respect, that doesn't really help us to move forward.

Etcetera.

They then wheeled on a genuine Mad Professor, a Professor Smith of Imperial College, I think Dimbleby said. His plan is to spend 20 billion quid (his figure - so multiply that by ten to get a bit nearer to the final true cost) on a new High Speed Rail Network for Britain. Public money, it was being assumed. At which point Norris astonished me again by reminding everyone that the Japanese high speed system, which was being discussed with the kind of reverence one would usually expect only of Patrick Crozier, is almost completely privatised.

It was all pretty boring, and I clockwatched throughout, but it nevertheless made me happy. Basically, Britain's ruling suitocracy wants road pricing and is winding itself up to say so, despite what the focus groups are presumably telling it. (No!!!!!!!!) And the bearded, demonstrating, emailing, concerned, scruffily impotent class, of the sort who don't feel like idiots when gathered to watch a programme like this in the studio instead of not watching it at home like normal people, want lots and lots more trains, going as fast as jet planes and bugger the cost to the taxpayer. The taxpayer is at home, hoping for the best and assuming the worst.

I'm with the suits (even though I dress like the worst sort of Green), and I suspect that the taxpayer could be in for a surprise during the next twenty years or so. A nice one, I mean.

Trackbacks

Comments

In defence of Mr Lyons I would say that he heads up one of these dreadful "industry" bodies which includes members from all sides including the trade unions. In consequence he is almost totally restricted in what he says. If he said anything interesting he would get the sack.

Posted by Patrick Crozier on December 18, 2002

Here in Edinburgh the ruling Labour regime favours road pricing (of a sort) and the Tories are opposed. Unsurprisingly, the Tories offer no alternative.

Posted by David Farrer on December 19, 2002

What you have to realize about the Shinkansen is that JR (Japan Rain) was originally a government organization. It was privatized around 1987. The Shinkansen network was already in place when JR was privatized.

So, a lot of government money went into the development of the Shinansen.

Posted by DrMM on December 21, 2002

Presuamably the reason that stupid Greens are in favour of road pricing while clever ones arn't is that stupid Tories are opposed.
There is no reason why trains should have drivers anywhere in Britain (per Docklands Light Rail). This could nearly halve running costs while doubling carrying capacity. For this to be done government would have to have a view - whoever owned it.

Posted by Neil on December 30, 2002

Permalink
 
 IN BRIEF

November 23, 2004

'Captain commuter' wins Sydney a free day on the trains ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Darling's saver ticket for slow-train Britain - he's going to do everything but close them ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
November 21, 2004

Tollroads Jamaican style - worth it if only for the pic of the toll plaza ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
November 20, 2004

Postive externalities come to DC - sort of ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Railways safer than ever - says Christian Wolmar ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Is graffiti art? - LFTTR think the question misses the point. FWIW I think many artists clearly have a lot of talent and it's a shame they don't have an appropriate, nay, legal outlet. ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Book review - Subterranean Railway by Christian Wolmar ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

One airline, 4 crashes, 8 dead: the real price of sugar snap peas in November ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
November 17, 2004

British Transport Films Collection DVD Volume One - Surely a must for any transport afficionado. It will be released just in time for Christmas. ...link
MH | Comments (0)
November 15, 2004

Crossrail website ...link
MH | Comments (0)
November 11, 2004

Brake fault forces Virgin to cut speed on flagship tilting trains - you know, just for once it sounds as if the HSE could be right ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
November 08, 2004

TV Alert "When trains crash", 1930 Channel 5 tonight. Talk about timing ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)
November 07, 2004

Ufton Nervet crash - 6 now confirmed dead ...link
PCCC | Comments (4)
November 06, 2004

One person dead as train derails ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
November 04, 2004

FirstGroup wants to add the tracks to its trains - that's brave ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
November 02, 2004

Car charge to rise to £6 ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 30, 2004

Psst wanna buy a railway station? ...link
MH | Comments (0)
October 26, 2004

'Kart Vader' - He tears around Quebec City at 100mph. In a go kart. At night. Wearing black. And he films it. Spotted by Jay Jardine. ...link
MH | Comments (0)
October 24, 2004

The downside of auto-mobile bans - drivers text instead ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Councils ban shrines to road crash victims - a story that neatly combines both transport and the issue of the day: mawkish sentimentality ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 20, 2004

The air hostess, the long hair and the sun roof - one of the more imaginative ways of staying awake at the wheel. ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Wheelchair-using MP travelled in 'cattle truck' - so, that's just the same as the rest of us then ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)

23 escape from burning train ...link
PCCC | Comments (3)

Wikipedia accuracy under fire - so, it's back on with the Glossary? ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 19, 2004

Rail chief quits after four months - walking away from £130,000. Golly ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 14, 2004

New comment on old posting - Tim Hall explains the story of the Highland Railway, its new locos and its soon-to-be-ex-Chief Mechanical engineer ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Out now: DVD version of leaves on the line ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 13, 2004

New link - Transport Watch UK. Lots of facts, lot of comparisons. Doesn't look good for rail ...link
PCCC | Comments (4)
October 11, 2004

Take the car and save the planet - walking kills, apparently ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Hybrids better than the real thing - golly ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Don't invest in mega-projects - says Peter Gordon ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 05, 2004

Prescott backs plan to reopen branch rail lines - well, he says he does ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)
October 04, 2004

New Glossary Entry - the Advanced Passenger Train ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 03, 2004

People are building their own speed cameras - One fellow is even selling fully functioning ones ...link
MH | Comments (0)

Pendolinos and Voyagers may prove to be one of privatisation's disasters - says Christian Wolmar ...link
PCCC | Comments (11)

Omedetō gozaimasu! - Tech Central Station on the 40th anniversary of the Shinkansen ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 02, 2004

Compulsory purchase to go - in US? Johnathan Pearce has some musings ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
October 01, 2004

Indian railway runs out of wheels - because it refuses to import ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

All for sprawl - Tyler Cowen links to a couple of articles including one from the NY Times magazine which is attracting a lot of attention ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)

Underground maps as art - according to Brian ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 30, 2004

Recent comment - Uncle Roger on the difficulty in working out accurate subsidy figures ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Europe by train - Tim Hall on Stephen Karlson's adventures ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Carpool lanes = communist gulags - Tim Hall is beginning to get it, possibly ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 29, 2004

P&O axes 1,200 jobs as ferry travel sails into past ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)
September 27, 2004

Hurtling towards a £7.6bn bill at full tilt - Alistair Osborne on the WCRM fiasco. Actually, I thought £7.6bn was on the low side ...link
PCCC | Comments (2)
September 26, 2004

A double-decked shame - RJ3 laments the passing of the Routemaster. It's those EU bastards, I tell you ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Tilting trains are rubbish - according to Ross Clark. Now he tells us ...link
PCCC | Comments (2)

Delays plummet by 28% - says Network Rail ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 25, 2004

New glossary item - the Health and Safety Executive - in which I demonstrate my almost complete ignorance of this institution ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Scant improvement in train times - according to latest figures ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 22, 2004

EU plan will hit safe women drivers - and it's all in the name of sex equality ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Unions gang up to demand railway renationalisation - they mean it isn't already? ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)
September 21, 2004

Top car makers support road-jam charging - Ford, GM, Honda, Daimler ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Journey times cut as 125mph tilting train sets record - after £8bn and the odd bankruptcy tilting trains that actually tilt are finally here ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 18, 2004

ABD calls for environmental audit of public transport - all those particulates ...link
PCCC | Comments (2)

Camera Partnerships must come clean on real causes of accidents - says ABD ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 16, 2004

The Green Quadratic - ASI paper on planning from 1988. Now available on-line ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 14, 2004

Up with conductors - they're really good, you know ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)

Speeding Britons fined in car race to Spain - "Among the cars were Ferraris, Porsches and Rolls-Royces." ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

MPs to lose free airport parking - oh, how my heart bleeds ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

The case against driving licences - Paul Clark in Lew Rockwell ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 10, 2004

Drivers trade privacy for insurance discounts ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 08, 2004

Free mints infuriate delayed commuters - some even threw them away, ingrates ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)

Privatize the roads! Liberate the streets! All we have to lose are our parking tickets! - Anthony Gregory in Lew Rockwell ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

M6 Toll hits 10m journey mark - er, about a month ago ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 07, 2004

California high-speed rail plan - all sorts of claims being made but Peter Gordon doesn't like the precedents ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 06, 2004

Swedish farmer fined 1,211 kronor for illegally parking a snowmobile in Warwick - Krister Nylander lives 205 north of Stockholm and has never been to Warwick. "They can wait till Hell freezes over and I can get to Britain on my snowmobile to pay the fine.” ...link
MH | Comments (0)
September 05, 2004

"Obsession is not too strong a word to describe how railway enthusiasts feel about railways" - Matthew Parris goes to Peru and meets some trainspotters ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 03, 2004

Hidden costs do not justify the level of tax on petrol in Britain - says Graham Seargeant ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Shovelling cash - utilities to pay for digging up roads ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Alistair Morton, builder of the Channel Tunnel, is dead ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Government 'willed' Railtrack to fail - says Corbett ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Cyclists saddled with seafront speed trap - in Bournemouth ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)

Historic Amsterdam tram photos Aaaah. Where's amg going to pitch up next? ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Why so little US electrification? - Tim Hall ponders the answer ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 02, 2004

London Underground Map - as it really is. ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Electric v steam - in 1923. But who won ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Freight or passenger in the US? - they're in conflict. Stephen Karlson considers the options ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
September 01, 2004

Fares and charge up in London - says Livingstone ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

'Fair fines' planned for speeding drivers ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Railtrack is cleared over Hatfield crash ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
August 31, 2004

Thousands 'ready to quit Aslef' - where would we be without brotherly love ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
August 30, 2004

Rural watchdog attacks road sign blight - See it's not just me who can't abide the avalanche of street furniture. ...link
MH | Comments (0)

What the traffic will bear - Bob Poole discusses the merits of tolling ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Prague trams - photos. Aaah ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
August 24, 2004

What if you can't drive? - Catallarchy's Sean Lynch considers the options ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

97% of accidents within speed limit - according to the ABD ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)
August 22, 2004

Prosecute motorway lane hogs - says RAC ...link
PCCC | Comments (3)
August 20, 2004

Radio tags for congestion charge? ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

World's longest road opens - in Russia ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Sprawl is cheap - says Iain Murray ...link
PCCC | Comments (1)
August 19, 2004

Strike threat to BA and Eurostar ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Toll roads are safer - at least according to my reading of this Marginal Revolution post ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Peking metro to hit 1000km mark - I'm not sure even London's is that long ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
August 15, 2004

Squander Two calmly talks about speed cameras ...link
MH | Comments (1)

Parking anarchy in St Albans - Police withdraw traffic wardens, Herts council won't have any until October, it's bedlam! ...link
MH | Comments (0)

The future of transport - as seen from the past ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Trains less efficient than cars - yes, I know, it's old news ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)

Ferry solution, please - Eamonn Butler wonders how you could introduce competition to a subsidised ferry service in the Western Isles ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)
August 14, 2004

Drink less, speed less, save on insurance - Marginal Revolution has the story ...link
PCCC | Comments (0)